On Medj. from CNS

[Denise]

This is the website of the USA-bishopsconference

MEDJUGORJE-BISHOP Jul-6-2006 (660 words) xxxi

Bosnian bishop urges Medjugorje visionaries to stop claims

By Simon Caldwell
Catholic News Service

LONDON (CNS) -- The bishop whose diocese includes the Bosnian village of Medjugorje has urged six alleged Marian visionaries to stop claiming that Mary has been visiting them for 25 years.

Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno, Bosnia-Herzegovina, said the church "has not accepted, either as supernatural or as Marian, any of the apparitions" said to have been witnessed by a group of people from Medjugorje.

"As the local bishop, I maintain that regarding the events of Medjugorje, on the basis of the investigations and experience gained thus far throughout these last 25 years, the church has not confirmed a single apparition as authentically being the Madonna," he said. He then called on the alleged visionaries and "those persons behind the messages to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish."

"In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the church, by placing neither private apparitions nor private sayings before the official position of the church," he said.

"Our faith is a serious and responsible matter," he added. "The church is also a serious and responsible institution."

The bishop made his comments June 15 during a homily at a confirmation Mass in Medjugorje's St. James Church. The diocese published the homily in English and Italian July 3.

On June 25, thousands of pilgrims converged on Medjugorje to mark the 25th anniversary of the onset of the alleged apparitions.

Since June 24-25, 1981, the alleged visionaries together claim to have received more than 30,000 messages.

But Bishop Peric said in his homily that "so-called apparitions, messages, secrets and signs do not strengthen the faith, but rather further convince us that in all of this there is nothing either authentic or established as truthful."

He said in February that Pope Benedict XVI expressed similar doubts when they discussed Medjugorje during the Bosnian bishops' visit to the Vatican.

Bishop Peric told the congregation that because the church did not accept the claims of the visionaries it was illicit for priests to "express their private views contrary to the official position" during Mass, in acts of popular piety or in the Catholic media.

He said Catholics were forbidden from making pilgrimages to Medjugorje if by such visits "they presuppose the authenticity of the apparitions or if by undertaking them attempt to certify these apparitions."

Bishop Peric said his views, and those of his predecessor, Bishop Pavao Zanic, who was also opposed to the claims, were supported by the pope. He expressed appreciation to Popes Benedict and John Paul II, "who have always respected the judgments of the bishops of Mostar-Duvno, of the previous as well as the current bishop, regarding the so-called apparitions and messages of Medjugorje, all the while recognizing the Holy Father's right to give a final decision on these events."

He also warned his audience of a schism emerging in the region between the church and more than a dozen Franciscan brothers and priests who have been expelled by the generalate of the Order of Friars Minor in Rome because of their disobedience to the pope.

He said that the expelled Franciscans "have not only been illegally active in these parishes, but they have also administered the sacraments profanely ... or they have assisted at invalid marriages."

Bishop Peric said he shared the view of Bishop Zanic that the visions and the Franciscan "schism," which began under Pope Paul VI in the 1970s, are linked.

Throughout the 1980s, Franciscan Father Jozo Zovko acted as "spiritual adviser" to the visionaries.

But three church commissions failed to find evidence to support their claims, and in 1991 the bishops of the former Yugoslavia declared that "it cannot be affirmed that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations."

A short while later Father Zovko was stripped of his faculties to exercise any priestly functions by Bishop Zanic in a decree upheld by Bishop Peric.

END

[JeniR]

This is in complete contract to Saint Bernadett Soubirous who continually said, " I have never told anyone that Mary appears to me."

[JeniR]

*contrast

[Denise]

Jeni, exactly! If you read Donal's book you would see contrast after contrast between Medj. Fatima and Lourdes. And... contradictions have been proven by many other before this book came out, like unitypublishing and other credible sources.

There is so much contradiction it blows my mind how anyone can say that whatever that is in Medj. is my Heavenly Mother. It is my personal opinion that we are dealing with the demonic and not just an idea someone had because of many things that happened throughout these years.

But for the grace of God go i.

Blessings
Denise

[Lori]

Denise,

Perhaps the tide is turning . We need to be sure and email the current CNS article and its reprint in the Texas "Catholic" to Bishop Peric and keep him informed on what is happening on this side of the continent. I would like us also to email the Texas Catholic Online article to every priest, deacon and parish secretary in the Diocese. If only we had another helper from Dallas who is great on the computer....

Jeni, Jeni, Jeni.....(that was a hint)

Blessings,

Lori

[KevinSymonds]

Get ready everyone!

The next few years in Medjugorje are going to be eventful.

Peric is bolstered by the Pope's words.

Medjugorje supporter Michael from MedjugorjeUSA is claiming that he had to write his book to counteract all of this negative press.

The battle goes on. Troops, line up and prepare to be shot at from all angles!

Watch yourselves!

Fratres, sobrii estote et vigilate, quia adversarius vester diabolus tamquam leo rugiens circuit quaerens quem devoret, qui resistite fortes in fide! --St. Peter

[JeniR]

Denise and Lori,

Anything I can do around here let me know. I don't mind at all! My time is somewhat limited as I work full time, but let me know what I can do.

[MarieT]

This is the website of the USA-bishopsconference

MEDJUGORJE-BISHOP Jul-6-2006 (660 words) xxxi

Bosnian bishop urges Medjugorje visionaries to stop claims

By Simon Caldwell
Catholic News Service

LONDON (CNS) -- The bishop whose diocese includes the Bosnian village of Medjugorje has urged six alleged Marian visionaries to stop claiming that Mary has been visiting them for 25 years.
Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno, Bosnia-Herzegovina, said the church "has not accepted, either as supernatural or as Marian, any of the apparitions" said to have been witnessed by a group of people from Medjugorje.
"As the local bishop, I maintain that regarding the events of Medjugorje, on the basis of the investigations and experience gained thus far throughout these last 25 years, the church has not confirmed a single apparition as authentically being the Madonna," he said. He then called on the alleged visionaries and "those persons behind the messages to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish."

He said in February that Pope Benedict XVI expressed similar doubts when they discussed Medjugorje during the Bosnian bishops' visit to the Vatican.

Bishop Peric told the congregation that because the church did not accept the claims of the visionaries it was illicit for priests to "express their private views contrary to the official position" during Mass, in acts of popular piety or in the Catholic media.

He said Catholics were forbidden from making pilgrimages to Medjugorje if by such visits "they presuppose the authenticity of the apparitions or if by undertaking them attempt to certify these apparitions."

Bishop Peric said his views, and those of his predecessor, Bishop Pavao Zanic, who was also opposed to the claims, were supported by the pope. He expressed appreciation to Popes Benedict and John Paul II, "who have always respected the judgments of the bishops of Mostar-Duvno, of the previous as well as the current bishop, regarding the so-called apparitions and messages of Medjugorje, all the while recognizing the Holy Father's right to give a final decision on these events."

Throughout the 1980s, Franciscan Father Jozo Zovko acted as "spiritual adviser" to the visionaries.

A short while later Father Zovko was stripped of his faculties to exercise any priestly functions by Bishop Zanic in a decree upheld by Bishop Peric.

END

hmmm just about says it all....now how can medj supporters say that the church 'accepts' the visions ......are they disillusioning themselves or is it just wishful thinking. Why look for signs when the most beautiful of all is present daily before us during the Eucharistic Celebration.

[Denise]

Well, I can see it now...condemned! AND if a Catholic still embraces this and tries to propagate it, those who do will be excommunicated, like the Necedah hoax and Mary Ann van Hoof, among many others. She was excommunicated, she wouldn't stop. If those so called seers don't stop they will be excommunicated as well as the Catholics who side with them.

When Lori and I opened this can of "worms" here we knew that we would get lots of flack and I knew I would start to get emails but I didn't care. I could care less what people thought or think, it is what God thinks that I am concerned with.

People complain about bishops being dissident or heretics and I have done plenty of honking myself, but when we have a bishop or bishops like Zanic and Peric you would think that the faithful would be grateful to them for not wavering from the truth. AND, poor bishop Peric was kidnapped from his residence in 1996 and they beat the tar out of him at one of the hostage churches run by those defrocked Franciscans. U.N. peacekeepers had to save him.

His captors demanded that he agree and go along iwth the hoax in Medj. but he refused. They ripped off his pectoral cross and became enraged when he told them that if necessary he would suffer just as Jesus Christ had to suffer.

This is not something you hear from the supporters of the hoax and we can see why. Only those who dance to the tune of the devil would dare strike a bishop and doing so means automatic excommunication. How holy is that?

Blessings
Denise

[MarieT]

A report on an interview given by Bishop Ratko Perić
to The Church on The Rock after his Ad Limina visit to
Pope Benedict XVI on February 23rd to 28th 2006.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the interview of Msgr. Ratko Perić, Bishop of Mostar-Duvno, released to the

“Crkva na kamenu” /The Church on the Rock/, monthly pastoral bulletin of the Dioceses of Mostar-Duvno and Trebinje-Mrkan, nr. 4/2006, pp. 22-24, after his “visitatio Ad Limina” from 23 to 28 February 2006.


Cnak: What were your impressions after your first meeting with the Pope?

Bishop Peric: - It was my first encounter with him as Pope but not the first with Joseph Ratzinger who previously was the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. There were many previous such encounters, especially alongside Bishop Žanić regarding the problems which are still burdening this diocese. One of the Prelates of the Pontifical Anti-Chamber or Assistants for the Pope’s private audiences is our priest Msgr. Petar Rajič, whose parents are originally from Doljani, the parish of Dračevo, in the diocese of Trebinje-Mrkan. He guides visitors through the entire protocol: entry, greeting, photographs, conclusion and departure. Each bishop is given about 15 minutes for his personal encounter. I personally handed over to the Holy Father a written “pro memoria” on a single page which contained 3 joyful and 3 less joyful to sad events and occurrences. He read the original text and referred to certain points by asking questions and making comments as well.



Cnak: What did you mention amongst the joyful events?

Bishop: The joyful events are firstly the pastoral and liturgical life in the dioceses of Herzegovina, especially the participation in Holy Mass, sacramental Confession and Holy Communion, particularly amongst young people. Though we are sinners we certainly do repent!

Secondly, the number of those who participate in catechism classes in schools and parishes. Catechism is taught in schools by 45 Diocesan priests, 53 Franciscan priests, 53 religious sisters and 58 lay people, which results in an impressive number of over 200 catechism teachers for about 30,000 pupils.

Thirdly, diocesan and both male and female religious vocations. There are 105 Diocesan priests in our dioceses, of which 30 are in service outside Herzegovina. There are also about 115 religious priests and 160 religious sisters within the territory of the dioceses. For the time being we are not experiencing a lack of personnel for our ecclesiastical assignments, offices or parish duties. We also have some candidates (15 Diocesan and 20 Franciscan) in preparation (certainly not the numbers we had in the past) but for the time being and the near future we need not worry.

Fourthly, restructuring and construction of new church buildings. Assistance received from our benefactors both locally and abroad creates true joy and gratitude. One could also see joy on the Pope’s face for this flourishing Church.



Cnak: And what did you mention amongst the less joyful events?

Bishop: Here too, there were a few points to mention. Since we are going through many tribulations, our crosses are flourishing as well. First of all we still have the painful Herzegovinian affair, though diminished compared to the past situation. I mentioned to the Holy Father, the Secretariat of State and the Congregations (for Bishops, for the Clergy, for the Evangelization of Peoples, for Catholic Education…) that we have three categories of “Fratres minores”: the first are those valid, legal, regular and cooperative religious who have the full consent and canonical faculties in order to serve pastorally in the territory of the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno. Thank God, over ninety fall into this category. The second category is that group which refused to sign the “Declaration of obedience” which was written up by the General Curia of the Franciscan OFM (Ordo Fratrum Minorum) in Rome and the Diocesan Chancery of Mostar, and approved of by the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples. There are 25 within the territory of Herzegovina who fall into this category and they do not have the faculties to confess nor teach, due to their own fault and responsibility. We hope that they will follow the example of the majority of their religious brothers and sign the Declaration. The third category corresponds to nine members who are not only disobedient, but who have also been expelled from the Franciscan Order and suspended from all liturgical activities, through their own fault and responsibility. They behave though, as if nothing has happened and have usurped five parishes and continue to create havoc and ecclesiastical chaos in some other parishes as well. Along with the adherents they have gathered for themselves, they have created a schism, a division, which is not so much a schism of intellectual as it is of an affective nature. These faithful for instance, do not accept “Don (father) Luke” but only “Fra Luke”, no matter how much the General of the Franciscan Order declares that this Fra Luke is no longer a Catholic Franciscan and despite the fact that he has been expelled from the Order due to his obstinate disobedience and schismatic attitude towards the Pope, the General Curia of the Order and the local Church. Whatever these nine do is done illegally or against the Church, and therefore the sacraments of confession, confirmation and marriage they administer are invalid. All the Church documents they issue are illegal and invalid, since they are not authorized to do so. They have even established their own association, through which they aim to pressure those responsible in the Church to act according to their disobedience and schism.



Cnak: How did they respond in the Vatican? How can one solve this crisis? There is talk of an Accord between the Holy See and Bosnia-Herzegovina. Will such an Accord help towards resolving these anomalies?

Bishop: We believe that this anomaly will not last forever. A very big step towards resolving this has been the decisiveness of both the General and Provincial OFM Curias to publicly and declaratively “separate” themselves from these priests, who have been expelled from the Order, who they do not consider their members any more, nor belonging to the Order in any way, despite the fact that they wear a Franciscan habit and proclaim their adherence to the Franciscan movement, while taking advantage of usurped parish churches and church registers. The Law on liberty of religion and the juridical status of the Church and religious communities, as well as the future Accord with the Holy See, will certainly help in this matter, since nobody wants the living organism of the Church to be eaten away by a virus that should be healed and eliminated.



Cnak: Some newspapers have written that this Pope visited Medjugorje incognito while he was a Cardinal and that he is preparing to recognize Medjugorje as a shrine, etc. Did you touch upon this topic?

We did and I wrote to and spoke with the Holy Father on it. He only laughed surprisingly. Regarding the events of Medjugorje our position is well known: not a single proof exists that these events concern supernatural apparitions and revelations. Therefore from the Church’s perspective no pilgrimages are allowed which would attribute any authenticity to these alleged apparitions. The Holy Father told me: we at the Congregation always asked ourselves how can any believer accept as authentic, apparitions that occur every day and for so many years? Are they still occurring every day? I responded: Every day, Holy Father, to one of them in Boston, to another near Milano and still another in Krehin Gradac ( Herzegovina), and everything is done under the protocol of “apparitions of Medjugorje”. Up till now there have been about 35,000 “apparitions” and there is no end in sight!

The Pope then continued: the previous Bishops’ Conference of the former Yugoslavia issued a statement of “non constat de supernaturalitate” (though the BCY did not use this specific formula, still the phrase “According to investigations made thus far, it cannot be affirmed that these events concern supernatural apparitions or revelations”, corresponds to the traditional formula in these matters). Has the current Bishops’ Conference of Bosnia-Herzegovina or the Croatian Bishops’ Conference reconfirmed the previous declaration?

I replied: There has been no joint reconfirmation, but each individual bishop when speaking on this issue refers to the Declaration. I added that I was sent to Mostar in 1992 and that I have been following the events from the beginning and that from the last declaration of the Bishops in 1991 up till now, nothing significant has changed, nothing new has happened, nor have any new elements occurred which would change the meaning of the events. In my opinion, from the numerous local facts, it is evident that these events can be defined not only by “non constat de supernaturalitate” ie: it is not certain that these events concern supernatural apparitions, but also by “constat de non supernaturalitate” ie: it is certain that these events do not concern supernatural apparitions. The numerous absurd messages, insincerities, falsehoods and disobedience associated with the events and “apparitions” of Medjugorje from the very outset, all disprove any claims of authenticity. Much pressure through appeals has been made to force the recognition of the authenticity of private revelations, yet not through convincing arguments based upon the truth, but through the self-praise of personal conversions and by statements such as one “feels good”. How can this ever be taken as proof of the authenticity of apparitions?

Finally the Holy Father said: we at the Congregation felt that priests should be of service to those faithful who seek Confession and Holy Communion, “leaving out the question of the authenticity of the apparitions”.

At the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, they are particularly concerned about the schism in our local Church. A local group of ex-Franciscans are presenting themselves as true Franciscans, misleading the faithful, instructing them in an un-ecclesiastical spirit, invalidly offering them the sacraments, and destroying the unity of teaching, sacraments and governance. And all of this serves towards a struggle for their own rights against the generally acclaimed rights of the Church. It was suggested at the Congregation that the local bishop follow the events in Medjugorje and send in reports on occasion as has been done thus far. From my encounter, I had the impression that these “private apparitions” are considered a truly private matter and private business to merit greater consideration on the part of the Holy See, as desired by the persistent petitioners and sensational journalists.

[MarieT]

http://www.mdaviesonmedj.com/page_Ad%20Limina.htm

source link to my previous post
blessings
m.

[Denise]

I think that is already posted but it doesn't hurt to post it again. By the way, there is an email going around that says the Vatican is going to review Medjugorje etc. I sent the email to Mark W. and Bp. Peric. Mark sent it to Bp. peric as well so we could get the truth straight from the mouth there that counts.

Anyway, Mark is really excited if this is true because this will nip it in the bud and people can't keep saying that Rome hasn't spoken on the matter. Although it is not up to Rome, the Bp. can ask them to formally and finally declare this a hoax or at least not from God. This is good news according to the right sources. I will let you know what the bp. says

Denise

[KevinSymonds]

I am truly interested to see how this comes about. Let's get Rick on that Commission!!

Peace!
-KJS

[Denise]

In speaking with Merk W. and Donal Foley, this is just some last ditch attempt to save something that isn't there. Mark did say he was excited if they did something like this because it would put an end to it once and for all.

Denise

[MarieT]

I think that is already posted but it doesn't hurt to post it again.

ooopsy sorry ....missed it

By the way, there is an email going around that says the Vatican is going to review Medjugorje etc.

eeek...yup i got this email also and noted yours and my addy were the only 2 on the list....you think this person is trying to tell us something lol.

I sent the email to Mark W. and Bp. Peric. Mark sent it to Bp. peric as well so we could get the truth straight from the mouth there that counts.

wow great sis.....who is mark by the way?

Anyway, Mark is really excited if this is true because this will nip it in the bud and people can't keep saying that Rome hasn't spoken on the matter. Although it is not up to Rome, the Bp. can ask them to formally and finally declare this a hoax or at least not from God. This is good news according to the right sources. I will let you know what the bp. says

thank you thank you sis...cant wait to hear.
blessings
m