wikipedia-medjugorje -someone needs to straighten them out

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wikipedia-medjugorje -someone needs to straighten them out

Post by MarieT » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:46 am

note how wikipedia states in detail, references of investigations that are in favour of medj (i noted a source -Fr Laurentin - well known 'pusher' of medj.....even goes so far as to beg someone not to publish incriminating evidence against medj and the seers)
In an official memorandum of the Vatican State Secretary Office No. 150.458, on the 1st of April 1985, Cardinal Casaroli charged Croatian Cardinal Franjo Kuharic to convey to bishop Zanic that he should "suspend the airing of his own personal statements and renounce making judgements, until such time as all the elements could be conclusively gathered together, and the happenings could be clarified", because bishop Zanic's statement, "The actual position..." had had considerable reverberations in the press.
The bishop's hoped-for co-operation has scarcely been discernible and a number of web sites have been actively spreading his personal statements and opinions, creating confusion among the faithful - the very result the Vatican anticipated when it charged Cardinal Kuharic to convey this message to the bishop. [9]
Because Bishop Zanić referred the matter to the Episcopal Conference, responsibility passed to the conference that still included all the bishops of the already dismantling Yugoslavia. In 1991, it issued a statement known as the Zadar Declaration, that said: "The bishops, from the very beginning, have been following the events of Medjugorje through the Bishop of the diocese, the Bishop's Commission and the Commission of the Bishops Conference of Yugoslavia on Medjugorje. On the basis of the investigations so far it cannot be affirmed that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations."
As a result of persisting confusion in the minds of the faithful, particularly as to the authority of the local bishop to forbid pilgrimages to Medjugorje and as to whether the bishop's opinions represented official Vatican opinion, inquiries were addressed to the Holy See. Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone (Secretary to the "Congregatio", presided over by Cardinal Ratzinger) Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith sent a reply on 26 July 1998, saying:

"What Bishop Peric (successor to Pavao Zanic) said in his letter to the Secretary General of "Famille Chretienne", declaring: "My conviction and my position is not only 'non constat de supernaturalitate (not proven to be supernatural),' but likewise, 'constat de non supernaturalitate' (proven to be not supernatural) of the apparitions or revelations in Medjugorje", should be considered the expression of the personal conviction of the Bishop of Mostar which he has the right to express as Ordinary of the place, but which is and remains his personal opinion."
Fr. Daniel-Ange (France) summarizes this way: [10]

The declarations of the Bishop of Mostar only reflect his personal opinion. Consequently, they are not an official and definitive judgement from the Church.[citation needed]
One is directed to the declaration of Zadar, which leaves the door open to future investigations. In the meanwhile private pilgrimages with pastoral accompaniment for the faithful are permitted.[citation needed]
A new commission was announced in June 2006.
In the meanwhile, all Catholics may go as pilgrims to Medjugorje.[citation needed]

[edit] Scientific research on the visionaries
A number of scientific and medical investigations have been conducted on the visionaries in Medjugorje.

The international French-Italian scientific theological commission "On the extraordinary events that are taking place in Medjugorje" reportedly examined the apparitions of Medjugorje. The assembly of seventeen renowned natural scientists, medical doctors, psychiatrists and theologians published a 12-point "conclusion" on 14 January 1986 in Paina near Milan. The summary was that "one can conclude that after a deeper examination of the protagonists, facts, and their effects, not only in the local framework, but also in regard to the responsive chords of the Church in general, it is well for the Church to recognize the supernatural origin and, thereby, the purpose of the events in Medjugorje."

A French team headed by Mr. Henri Joyeux undertook a series of neurological tests, using EEG and EKG device to examine the internal reactions of the visionaries and the synchronization of their ocular, auditory, cardiac, and cerebral reactions before, during, and after the reported apparitions. They concluded from their readings that the object of observation is apparently external to the visionaries, and they excluded any external manipulation or mutual agreement between the visionaries. The results with individual electro-encephalograms and other reactions were collected and described in Joyeux's book, written with R. Laurentin, Etudes medicales et scientifique sur les Apparitions de Medjugorje (Paris, 1986)scientific report

The results of psychiatric investigations by the Institute for the Field Limits Of Science (IGW), the Innsbruck Centre For Study and Research on Psychophysiology of States of Consciousness, the European School of Hypnotic Psychotherapy Amisi of Milan, and the Parapsychology Center of Bologna, likewise concluded that the alleged visionaries showed no signs of pathological symptoms, and no stress other than appropriate for their unusual situation. They pointed out that there is a difference between a state of ecstasy induced by hypnosis and one which comes about spontaneously, and concluded that the alleged visionaries were not under any form of hypnosis.

Psychologist and skeptic Armando De Vincentiis analyzed some of the works of Dr. Margnelli and Dr. Gagliardi in his book " Estasi: Stimmate e altri fenomeni mistici " ( " Ecstasy: Stigmata and other mystical phenomena " available only in Italian, Avverbi 1999, Rome, page 118). According to De Vincentiis, about the similarity between ecstatic state and hypnotic state, " the conclusions of the two authors [Margnelli and Gagliardi] present several weak points" ( " Estasi: Stimmate e altri fenomeni mistici ", Avverbi 1999, Rome, page 63 ). Moreover, author De Vincentiis suggests that we should reconsider the role of hysteria ( a well-known psychopathology ) in all mystical experiences ( quoted work, pages 47 trough 49 ).

Full account of the works of the three committees on Medjugorje can be found here: http://www.skepticwiki.org/index.php/Vi ... Medjugorje
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me%C4%91ugorje

marie
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Post by Denise » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:18 am

Anyone can add or take away from this article at wikipedia. It is not really a reliable tool because anyone can contribute.

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Post by MarieT » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:10 am

yup thats right. i wonder if we added to 'set them straight' would they probably delete it anyway?

marie
"He who followeth Me, walketh not in darkness." sayeth the Lord

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