Marian Helper Problems.../Medjugorje

Heresy experiments in distortion; orthodoxy developes in proportion. The false emphasis is not only a wrong in itself but it is used as a means of diverting the eyes of men in the wrong direction. Van Zeller

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Denise
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Post by Denise » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:49 am

AUDIENCES



VATICAN CITY, FEB 23, 2006 (VIS) - The Holy Father today received in separate audiences:

- Four prelates from the Bishops' Conference of Bosnia and Herzegovina.



- Cardinal Vinko Puljic, archbishop of Vrhbosna, Sarajevo, accompanied by Auxiliary Bishop Pero Sudar.



- Bishop Franjo Komarica of Banja Luka.



- Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno, perpetual administrator of Trebinje-Mrkan.

AP:AL/.../...

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Lori
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Post by Lori » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:53 am

There has been some progress in alerting folks of the danger of Father Donald Calloway. To date Catholic Culture has added weaknesses to their reviews of the Marians, EWTN and divinemercysunday.com. We will continue to keep this post updated with any changes.



http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/si ... ?recnum=28

http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/si ... ecnum=1884
http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/si ... ?recnum=52

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Post by Lori » Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:00 pm

In regards to the meeting between the contingency from the Bosnian area, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall. Yesterday was the Feast of the Chair of Saint Peter. How fitting that a Bishop, Ratko Peric, who is "in Union" with the Chair of Peter, Pope Benedict XVI, should have a private audience with the Pope. I am curious as to whether semperficatholic.com was mentioned.

Saint Peter, pray for us!!

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Post by Denise » Fri Feb 24, 2006 9:54 am

I have made bold the words of the Holy Father and it is exactly what we have been trying to get across when we speak of disobedience. Canon Law is very specific in these matters as was the previous bishop of Mostar and the present one. I am so happy to see that a Nuncio was assigned to the area. This will help matters. Something great is going to happen, I just know it!

Denise

TO BISHOPS OF BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA: BE PEACEMAKERS

VATICAN CITY, FEB 24, 2006 (VIS) - "Blessed are the peacemakers." With these words, Benedict XVI received in the Vatican this morning prelates from the Bishops' Conference of Bosnia and Herzegovina, who have just completed their "ad limina" visit.

"Following the sad years of the recent war," said the Pope, "you as peacemakers are called to reinforce communion and to disseminate mercy, understanding and forgiveness in the name of Christ, both within the Christian communities and throughout the complex social fabric of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

"I well know that yours is not an easy mission, but I also know that you maintain your gaze constantly fixed upon Christ, Who ... gave His disciples a fundamental task that sums up all the others, that of loving. Love ... must not simply follow earthly laws, ... but translate into that higher measure of justice which is mercy." The Pope underlined the fact that, with this spirit, the bishops "will easily be able to carry out the mission entrusted to you, contributing to healing still-open wounds and to resolving contrasts and divisions left over from past years."

Benedict XVI then went on to mention some of the problems facing the prelates of Bosnia and Herzegovina, such as "the position of exiles, for whom I hope appropriate agreements will be reached in respect of everyone's rights." He also mentioned "the indispensable equality between citizens of various religions, ... the urgent need for measures to meet the growing lack of work for young people, and attenuating ominous tensions between ethnic groups."

The Holy Father reaffirmed the Holy See's closeness to Bosnia and Herzegovina, a closeness confirmed, among other things, "by the recent appointment of a resident nuncio, who will be able to maintain permanent contact with the country's various requirements." He then went on to consider a number of matters of concern to the bishops in their diocesan lives:

"First of all, it is important that every effort be made to increase the unity of the flock of Christ, ... overcoming, if necessary, misunderstandings and difficulties associated with events of the past. The Church everywhere pursues a single objective, that of building the Kingdom of God in all lands and in the hearts of all people. To the successors of the Apostles and to their collaborators in the pastoral ministry is entrusted the mission of preserving intact the heritage of the Lord, adhering faithfully to the doctrinal and spiritual patrimony of the Church in her entirety."

"Blessed are the peacemakers," the Holy Father repeated. "As well as to the Church's mission in the outside world, these words are also applicable to internal relations among her members. The various ecclesiastical elements ... are regulated by canonical norms that are an expression of a centuries-old experience. ... It is up to the bishop, father of the community entrusted to him by Christ, to discern what is appropriate to the building of the Church of Christ. In this sense, the bishop is pontiff, a 'builder of bridges,' between the various elements of the ecclesial community."

All this, Benedict XVI concluded, "constitutes a particularly important aspect of episcopal ministry at this moment in history, as Bosnia and Herzegovina resume the path of collaboration to build a future of social development and peace."

AL/.../BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA VIS 060224 (560)

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josephw
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LORI

Post by josephw » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:20 am

WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND ABOUT ???
http://www.catholicculture.org/sites/si ... ?recnum=28



Apostles of Divine Mercy

SHOWS WEAKNESS BECAUSE OF SPIRIT DAILY LINK...

IF YOU LOOK UP ALL THE WEB SITES ON SPIRIT DAILY
YOU WILL NOTE VERY FEW SHOW WEAKNESS ON
http://www.catholicculture.org/

LOURDES/ZNET/FATIMA ETC,ETC.
JESUS I TRUST IN YOU
JOSEPHW

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Lori
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Post by Lori » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:02 am

Joe,

I can sympathize with you. About two times a day I go to catholic culture and "recheck" their ratings. I try not to send more than one request a day for them to update. I truly wish that their office was here in the Dallas area that so I could go there and talk to them face to face and ask them why are they so hesistant to change "certain" sites' overall rating to "Yellow" for caution. It is obvious to me that catholic culture gives the "Green" light tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easily when it comes to Fidelity. Where are we Catholics to go to find sites "always faithful" to the Magisterium of the Church?

Joe, you could ask catholic culture why they are still giving the Marians and Divinemercysunday.com a green light for fidelity when they list weaknesses in the fidelity category.

God bless you,

Lori
Last edited by Lori on Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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josephw
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LORI

Post by josephw » Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:25 am

LORI

THANKS FOR THE REPLY...

I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ABOUT AN HOUR NOW ON CATHOLIC CULTURE SITE..

SO MANY SITES SHOW NO WEAKNESS"s
SITES SELLING Medjugorje ITEMS
SITES WITH BAD LINKS..ETC.

ANYHOW
JESUS I TRUST IN YOU (AND ONLY YOU)
JOSEPHW

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Denise
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Post by Denise » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:20 am

Joe, if you know of any sites they have not added a weakness to, please let me know and I will contact them or better still, you can go to their contact list and send it to them yourself. They have complied every time Lori or I have contacted them. They only have one lady that does all those reviews, "new and re-reviews." It is tedious for her and Lori and I can't do it all either.

I think they are getting so large that it is hard for one person to check out everything. That is why sometimes it is a great help to them if we help out by sending them exact links that we want them to know about.

As far as Michael Brown's site, all false and unapproved apparition sites attach themselves to approved ones because it gives them clout...they think! But if you know church teaching and are obedient then it is easy to recognize the good from the bad. All they are really doing is ripping apart the church by their disobedience and they are confusing the people. We know where confusion comes from. Our Lady and Her Father, Son, and Spouse has never confused anyone and they never will.

God bless,
Denise

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josephw
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D

Post by josephw » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:48 am

D

HERE IS ONE THAT SELLS Medjugorje ITEMS
http://www.yourcatholicstore.com/

I WOULD SEND IN FOR REVIEWS DIFFERENT SITES AS THERE ARE TONS OF THEM..

BEFORE I DO THO WOULD LIKE SOME GUIDELINES..

EMAIL ME WHEN I MITE CATCH YOU BEFORE MASS SO I COULD HAVE A
CHAT.

JESUS I TRUST IN YOU
JOSEPHW

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Denise
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Post by Denise » Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:17 am

Ok! I will go ahead and report this link.

Blessings
Denise

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Vatican on Medjugorje

Post by MarieT » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:07 am

Holy Mother Church's traditional way of handling alleged apparitions is as such: The local Ordinary is usually the "final voice" on the matter after deep investigation, interviews with those that allege apparitions, etc...He is the Vatican's "on the spot investigator" and reports back his findings.

The Conference found that "... it cannot be affirmed that these visions are the result of supernatural (divine) origin: non constat de supernaturalitate"

this was a negative finding, much to the dismay of the medj followers.

Bishop Peric however was quite alarmed at how frequently the alleged 'seers' kept changing their supposed conversations with the 'holy mother', how their stories became bordering on the ridiculous (note the story re the 'apparition' of the bloodied hanky causing the end of the world) as one example....we're still around, thanks to a taxi driver disobeying "Jesus" and not throwing a bloodied hanky into the river as directed by "jesus" because the "holy mother" appeared and told him to disobey "jesus" and not throw the hanky in the river or it would be the end of the world...okkkkkkk

from catholic.org
" Bishop Peric went a step further and states constat de non supernaturalitate. This means that there is positive proof from the messages or the seers that this is a hoax. Or, to put it another way, Bishop Peric is saying that not only are the visions not supernatural, but there is activity going on which shows/proves (constat)that there is insincerity and untruthfulness. This is a very strong statement, and goes beyond the usual judgment which the Church calls the Ordinary to render.

Conversations with the alleged 'seers' were taped. When the stories were changed, the Bishop would bring this to the attention of the alleged 'seer' and they would make some excuse. The frightening element in all this hoax is that these alleged 'seers' swore on the Blessed Sacrament, and then continued to swap and change their stories as suited.

now for the vatican response.....


March 1996: CDF letter to Bp. Taverdet
SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH

Vatican City, March 23, 1996, Prot. No. 154/81-01985

Your Excellency,

In your letter of February 14, 1996 you inquired what is the present position of the Church regarding the alleged "apparitions in Medjugorje" and whether it is permitted to the Catholic faith to go there for pilgrimage

archbishop bertone has the words "apparitions in medjugorje" in inverted commas

regarding the authenticity of the apparitions in question, the Bishops of the former Yugoslavia confirmed in their Declaration of April 10, 1991 published in Zadar:

". . .On the basis of investigation up till now it cannot be established that one is dealing with supernatural apparitions and revelations

The result from this in what is precisely said is that official pilgrimages to Medjugorje, understood as a place of authentic Marian apparitions, are not permitted to be organized either on the parish or on the diocesan level, because that would be in contradiction to what the Bishops of former Yugoslavia affirmed in their forementioned Declaration


25 march 1985 from bishop of mostar episcopal directive Letter to Fr. Tomislav Pervan, directing him to cease publicizing messages and remove the apparition activity from the parish church

9 Jan 1987 His Eminence Franjo Cardinal Kuharic,
President, Bishops' Conference of Yugoslavia, and
Most Rev. Pavao Zanic,
Bishop of Mostar episcopal directive The Bishops' Conference investigation is announced; pilgrimages and other manifestations of belief in the apparitions are forbidden.

25 Jul 1987 Most Rev. Pavao Zanic,
Bishop of Mostar episcopal statement Sermon at Medjugorje; forbids visiting priests from celebrating Mass

11 Jul 1988 Miss Marija Pavlovic Miss Pavlovic retracts a previous alleged message from Our Lady

Feb 1990 Most Rev. Pavao Zanic
Bishop of Mostar episcopal statement Reasons for disbelieving in the alleged supernatural character of the messages

28 Nov 1990 Yugoslav Bishops' Conference episcopal statement Judgment: non constat de supernaturalitate

Oct 1993 Most Rev. Ratko Peric,
Bishop of Mostar Reviews how Church authorities came to their conclusions

11 Oct 1994 Most Rev. Ratko Peric,
Bishop of Mostar At the synod on religious life, Bp. Peric appeals to the Holy See for help regarding "confusion and division" in the diocese.

23 March 1996 Most Rev. Tarcisio Bertone,
Secretary, Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith Vatican repeats ban on parish and diocesan pilgrimages

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Archbishop (now Cardinal) Pell forbids Medjugorje "seer

Post by MarieT » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:35 am

AUSTRALIA -

Archbishop George Pell of Sydney has refused to allow
Vicka Mijatovic-Ivankovic, 38, one of the six alleged Medjugorje
visionaries, to speak in any Church building during a visit to his
country, because her claims have been refuted by the bishops of
former Yugoslavia.

The archbishop feared that if he allowed her to
address Catholics from Church property he would be giving official
sanction to claims that were rejected by Mrs Mijatovic-Ivankovic's
local bishops, whose function it was to determine their authenticity.
[Catholic Herald - quoted in Catholic Family Newsletter 3 November
2002]


and my own experiences with the new archbishop of melbournes office
when ivan was allegedly arriving....i was told by his secretary that
they had not any information of ivan touring to talk in our
churches....and that anything not approved by the Holy See is not
allowed in our churches and any priest in the archdiocese of
melbourne that allowed this would be in disobediance to rome and
would be called up to "explain" and made accountable.

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Post by Denise » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:44 am

Bishop Peric however was quite alarmed at how frequently the alleged 'seers' kept changing their supposed conversations with the 'holy mother', how their stories became bordering on the ridiculous
I have several books published with so-called "messages" in them. Glad I hung on to them for use as a tool to debate this. These books are their own publications and are from 84-87. Anyway, yes, in newer publications of the same messages for that period, a lot has been changed concerning certain messages, even left out. Can you imagine changing Our Lady's words or removing them all together if in fact she did say them? I don't think so!

In an 84 message, one of the "seers" says that the "apparition" will give a message every Thursday etc. from then on.The very next week there was no message and the "seer" said that the apparition "changed her mind"? Huh? This kind of stuff is all through the book. Totally bad theology!

Blessings
Denise

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Post by Lori » Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:38 am

The messages from Medjugorje are chockful of error, here is just one:
May 25, 1987 ... I want each one of you to be happy here on earth
and to be with me in Heaven.
That is, dear children, the purpose of
my coming here and it's my desire. Thank you for having responded to
my call."
Compare and contrast this "message" with Lourdes when Our Lady said to Bernadette:
"Would you do me the favor of coming here for 15 days? I do not promise to make you happy in this world, but in the other."

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Post by Lori » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:03 am

And some more "messages" that are so ridiculous...

December 19, 1985 "Dear children! Today I wish to call you to love
of neighbor. The more you will to love your neighbour, the more you
shall experience Jesus especially on Christmas Day. God will bestow
great gifts on you if you surrender yourselves to Him. I wish in a
special way on Christmas Day to give mothers my own special motherly
blessing, and Jesus will bless the rest with His own blessing
. Thank
you for having responded to my call."
December 26, 1985 "Dear children! I wish to thank all who have
listened to my messages and who on Christmas Day have lived what I
said. Undefiled by sin from now on, I wish to lead you further in
love. Abandon your hearts to me! Thank you for having responded to
my call!"
1986
January 2, 1986 "Dear children! I call you to decide completely for
God. I beseech you, dear children, to surrender yourselves
completely and you shall be able to live everything I am telling
you. It shall not be difficult for you to surrender yourselves
completely to God
. Thank you for having responded to my call."
January 9, 1986 "Dear children! I call you by your prayers to help
Jesus along in the fulfillment of all the plans which He is forming
here.
And offer your sacrifices to Jesus in order that everything is
fulfilled the way He has planned it and that Satan can accomplish
nothing. Thank you for having responded to my call."
January 16, 1986 "Dear children! Today also I am calling you to
prayer. Your prayers are necessary to me so that God may be
glorified through all of you.
Dear children, I pray you, obey and
live the Mother's invitation, because only out of love am I calling
you in order that I might help you. Thank you for having responded
to my call."
January 23, 1986 "Dear children! Again I call you to prayer with the
heart. If you pray with the heart, dear children, the ice of your
brothers will melt and every barrier shall disappear. Conversion
will be easy for all who desire to accept it. That is the gift which
by prayer you must obtain for your neighbor. Thank you for having
responded to my call."
January 30, 1986 "Dear children! Today I call you all to pray that
God's plans for us may be realized and also everything that God
desires through you! Help others to be converted, especially those
who are coming to Medjugorje. Dear children, do not allow Satan to
get control of your hearts, so you would be an image of Satan and
not of me.
I call you to pray for how you might be witnesses of my
presence. Without you, God cannot bring to reality that which He
desires.
God has given a free will to everyone, and it's in your
control. Thank you for having responded to my call."
February 6, 1986 "Dear children! This parish, which I have chosen,
is special and different from others. And I am giving great graces
to all who pray with the heart. Dear children, I am giving the
messages first of all to the residents of the parish, and then to
all the others. First of all you must accept the messages, and then
the others. You shall be answerable to me and my Son, Jesus. Thank
you for having responded to my call."

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